These are excerpts from a conversation I was having about the issues in Belize and the causes. It stemmed from a different topic but ended up becoming a dialogue of the constitution being the main issues, well at least from my point of view…
Who has the ‘gut’ to take on the issues of mindset change and modus operandi change?
I started Friend 1.. http://fiwebelize.com/wiki/index.php?title=Belize_Constitution_Ver_2 Anyone want to join? Send an email to support at fiwebelize.com with your desired username.
Cayo Buay – while our Constitution can be improved the problem is not with the present Constitution but rather with the lack of respect for it and the principles it embodies. I think the major change has to be our “representation process” instead of first parcel post we need proportional representation because while UDP has majority seat they do not have consideration for the 49% plus that they obviously do not represent. that 49% is voiceless… but even the people they actually represent through the seats they won are not consulted regularly to say what they want their reps position on issues to be and this can never be done because Said Musa under he PUP rule put in place a “crossing over” amendment to the constitution which forces a rep to vote in the House long the liens of their party and not the will of their constituents – to vote against the party line is then to be considered as having crossed the floor – now that wicked!
Friend 2, two MAJOR problems with the constitution: 1. it gives elected officials TOO much power, and 2. it gives the people no power. We as a nation have become the de fact dictatorship the constitution TOLD us to and MADE us become.
And let’s just say — wicked politicians have urged that theme along nicely.
Friend 3, if the ‘supremacy’ of the people is in question, it may not be the fault of the constitution. Instead, it may be the result of the hesitation, reluctance, or refusal of our people to proactively and ongoingly engage as the true government.
Friend 1, it may or may not be what you say, but I will err on the side of “not”. There are more factors affecting the situation in Belize than the simplistic rhetoric you offer. When was the last time you were in Belize?
Friend 1, “hesitation, reluctance or refusal of our people to proactively and ongoingly engage” is a direct result of our constitution and the failed system we call Education in Belize. The political system knows this and they have devised ways to fully exploit this to their advantage.
I guarantee you, if you take a poll of every single Belizean and ask questions to see what they know about the constitution and their rights, you may very well be able to figure out how many of them know without doing any advanced math.
The problem is the people, I agree; but it is a direct result of a system that has raised an ignorant and complacent people. Which is why I keep saying that Belize needs a new foundation, not a new house. We keep building new houses in the form of changing parties every so often but the main problem remains, a failed foundation.
It’s just like construction, lets say your house starts to crack and one side starts to sink.. You get it looked at and you are told that your foundation failed and it cracked which is what’s causing the issues. Would you knock down your house and build a new one on the same foundation or would you ensure that the foundation was rebuilt and that the earth around it was stabilized and properly designed and start a new?
Cayo Buay, if the constitution is defective, then it does need to be revisited and rectified, or amended, or rewritten
Reforming or restoring our constitution will not stop this greedy politicians from wanting to fuck with it, it won’t even restore jobs, the environment or magically change our welfare system, our health care, social security and will not change the way campaigns are financed. It will not improve our educational standards or give people new skills. What we urgently need is a conversion, we need to reinvent the way we want to be governed, we need to reinvent government (politicians). For this to happen we need to accept and understand where we are at this point and where we would like to be in say, four years. (And for this to happen our politicians have to stop growing balls and start growing some vagina’s…like an old lady said right here on FB Jajaja impossible right!!!) Grrrrrrrrh!!!!!!!!!!!
Friend 4, I have evolved over the years and even more since we started to discuss the issue of “change” here on fb. What we are up against is a people so conditioned that they cannot see beyond the two mass parties. I get it now that we need to convert and reinvent – but there are those influentials for whom the status quo has served them and continues to do so, therefore they are a force to reckon with in order to bring about that conversion and reinvention.
A properly written constitution will change things. As long as there are proper checks and balances put in place in it to ensure that no one can fuck with it the way DOB is doing now. There needs to be a clause in it that any change no matter how minute must be accompanied with detailed proposals that explain in laymans terms what is being done and then it needs to pass through the house (which the new constitution will amend to have members elected by the people) and the bar for legal review.
Just to start with.
Voting in another party won’t change anything either if we stay with the same broken foundation… Why do you think we are where we are in the first place.. Because greedy politicians found a way to use the broken foundation against us. For starters, the current constitution give way too much power to one person and to the ruling party, which makes up the house for all intent and purposes.
In all essence, despite having checks against conflict of interest, the system in itself is a conflict of interest.. When you have a house that has final say on what goes on in our country that is made up of the same idiots that are trying to get what they want..
Now tell me if we don’t need to rewrite that?
It won’t work. La mona aunque la vistas de ceda, mona se queda. When will you guys accept and understand this.
What amuses me Cayo Buay is that considering, what Glenn said, “considering that it has all been playing out in full view for the last several years” we still have people that are brave enough of defending the pup or the udp, even worse when our country is faced with value-laden questions, in the process allowing our leaders to be our ultimate explorers and facilitators. Let me tell you CB, like it or not, the burden of responsibility is on our leaders, any way you put it, not on our constitution, and if we don’t start by challenging our leaders and aspiring ones with real technical issues like the the 9th amendment, the stolen millions and other issues of national importance we will never get nor answers nor solutions and will never be able to chastise them, doesn’t matter how well the constitution is rewritten.
Your question sounds more like an attempt of skirting the real issues. Who are we to blame when things are obviously wrong? Our constitution. I don’t think so my friend. We need to quit behaving like we have dilemmas of guilt, shame, or the right thing to do. Our society is in dire need of people who are honestly out spoken and definite, people who will not avoid their responsibilities while openly chastise Gov’t encroachment upon our lives. Lets not obscure the larger issues and the tough choices we as Belizeans need to make. People like you and the media are brutal in this regard. For me my friends, the rules and expectations are clear, the problems are concrete, the answer is clear and am sure that the burden of responsibility is on our past and present politicians. CB, we cannot trust our leaders to make big decisions alone, not because they don’t necessarily warrant trust, but because they are human. Band aid solution answers to problems of value and belief are no answers at all this is why rewriting our constitution won’t work.
Strong civic pride and citizenship requires realistic expectations from our leaders, sharing of responsibility and continuous evaluation of our values and priorities and an active “informed voice” it also requires moral knowing, moral feeling, and moral action. Our political leaders cannot do this for us. As citizens of a democratic nation we must look within and beyond ourselves when morality is concerned. While I totally agree with you that we need to rewrite or like I prefer saying restore our constitution, this will just offer a band aid solution to our problems well the real issue here is one of morality.
Ok, so let me ask you this.. Did many a politician not go into politics with clean hearts and well minded intentions? And what happened to them? The problem is this and I’ll use a different scenario as an example..
Lets say you go borrow money at a bank, you read over the contract and you notice that there is a loop hole that could potentially be used to your advantage of cheating the bank out of it’s money. What do you think the average human would do? Now put that same idea into our current political system only now multiply the loopholes by hundreds and make the borrower a very sneaky and well educated attorney that knows the ins and outs and every nook and cranny.
I do not skirt issues my friend, I look at them for what they are and find real world solutions for them. Simply keeping a cycle of new comers to be put into a system that is flawed and full of loopholes will in no way remedy that situation we are in no matter how well minded they are, there will always be one rotten apple in the crowd and you know how that proverb goes.
We should never ever leave the burden of responsibility on political figures, it is absurd to do that. This is the main issue that has us in the hell hole we are in today. I agree with you that morality should be a major character in a political figure but seriously, when and how often have you seen that trait in the last couple decades?
It is my opinion that we are more than ready and way behind the time for a new constitution that will take us into the next millennia in a positive way.
Believe me, I was not skirting, it’s just that you never gave a reason why.
Like I said earlier:
In all essence, despite having checks against conflict of interest, the system in itself is a conflict of interest.. When you have a house that has final say on what goes on in our country that is made up of the same idiots that are trying to get what they want.
Our current system puts all the power in the hands of one person. We have never had any real democracy in Belize, just a legal way of putting dictators and plutocrats in office…
“Strong civic pride and citizenship requires realistic expectations from our leaders…”
– How can we achieve that when the vast majority of Belizeans have no idea what their basic right are, much less on how to have civic pride?
– When students have no idea who heroes like George Price, Leigh Richardson or Clifford Betson are, how do we expect the country to move ahead?
– How can we achieve that when our education system has failed us miserably for decades and probably will for more.
CB what I am saying is that nut and bolt solutions or quick fix technical solutions alone simply will not work, we need to think long term here.
I agree bro.. But a re-written constitution will be a part of a long term plan, not on it’s own but with a combination of other factors that will be governed by a properly written constitution… This by no means will be a quick easy fix or a band aid solution but rather a well engineered organism.
See Article 4 …
I am still researching and scrap-booking… If anyone wants to join in, please feel free to do so. We need more level headed people to come together to create effective solution and not just talk the talk.
May no one lose sight of the need to properly identify the ‘problem’ before one can find or ‘craft’ a proper solution.
I know one of the problems which is what I am trying to solve or at least try to help solve. A broken foundation with a sinking house full of innocent people.
In agreement with ‘broken foundation’, brother! Wondering about the ‘innocence’.
Also, wondering about the nature of the brokenness.
I meant innocence as in not knowing what is happening around them, either by choice or by ignorance (Not the negative ignorance).
brokenness as in our constitution that is so outdated and full of holes that is being exploited and used against Jewelizeans.
What I’ve been trying to say all over is that part of the difficulty lies with us, the voters and our quest for answers. Just look at what’s happening here look at the politicians we elect and the type of governing they treat us to election after election, we don’t seem to realize that the problems we face cannot always be answered with clear-cut practical solutions especially when the problem is one of values.
This is why I keep saying that our problems and questions simply reflect deeper needs and conflicting values which brings me back to the moral issues we as a society are facing. A re-written constitution will offer us the option of a new way forward but just like it did 30 years ago. Comprende amigo.
And please don’t tell me that out there is a pup or a udp that can get this humongous job done, worse yet please don’t tell me that there are enough Belizeans out there that believe in true freedom and are willing to embrace it and fight for it with their own lives.The way I see it my friends, it’s survival of the fittest, we di go fa grace to grass to lone #$%#@!(*&…
I agree with the moral issues. This is where what I’ve constantly been preaching comes in as the second part of change that will go hand in hand with a new constitution, Education.
The reason our people are the way they are is what? Ignorance and complacency.. We have been raised that way for decades, luckily a few of us stumbled and our blinders fell off; we saw a wider line of sight. It is now up to US, the few that know better to pave a new road and do all that we can to pull the blinders off others so they too can see..
As far as the constitution goes, we need to ensure that it keeps growing and morphing to suite the changing times, but within it needs to be strict guidelines of how those changes will be handled.
Another part that will need to be implemented/redrawn is the structure of our govt. We can no longer keep the system as it is today where the PM is hand picked by his colleagues and that the ruling party runs the House of Representatives. We need to change the way the House of Representatives is structured and their laws as well. We need to return the power to the Legal body once more and we most definitely need to ensure that those cannot be undermined any longer going forward.
Believe me, I see what you are saying.
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